Curse

Mesmer in Need · Nov 06, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

i think i finnaly have it. now, i only have two water snares on my runner, but it still works fine. i tried this build today, and with just 14 water i did pretty good. with a wand 20%hrt and focus20%hrt, i can usually run to the flagstand and back pretty easily. when in the fray, i think you could use a 45/-2 enchanted focus item(which you can make). the snares will slow down the enemies while the rest of the team sets up. now, i put in glyph of sac and rez chant, for my hard rez. this is for running into a hard spot, and getting your teammate up and running quick. i still think he will be fine on energy as long as he doesnt overuse heal party.
i put in the option of mind wrack on my mesmer, because i dont like the idea of him running in to get a blackout off.
i am using the bbreaker hammer for now, but a soon as i cap devastating, i will try the weakness build.
for hexes and conditions i think i have it covered. blight takes away both, plus convert hexes. my boon prot has mend ailment now for conditions, and my warder has extingish and draw. i might change draw for another hex remover though.
here we go:
http://gwshack.us/e0fcc

LightningHell · Nov 06, 2006, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Hammer warrior is fine, although I'd prefer Death's Charge instead of Bull's Strike, and out of personal preference I'd take Protector's Strike instead of Mighty Blow.

I'd switch out Protector's Strike for Bull's Strike; again, personal preference. Also, I prefer Sprint over Rush.

Put Mesmer's bar on 14 Dom - you have no breakpoints from there on. Also, I'd prefer to put an interrupt (probably Power Drain) in the place of Shame, but that's also personal preference. It looks very energy heavy. Shatter Enchantment is frequently used as a spike-assist, however, with ESurge/Burn I don't see much use of that - of course, it's also my opinion. The only thing that I'd really recommend you to change is the attribute spread.

On a Cripshot with Distortion (post-nerf), I'd try this: (beware - this is someting untested!)
Expertise: 10 +1
Marksmanship: 8 +1 +1
Wilderness Survival: 8 +1 (Couldn't hit the Troll Unguent breakpoint, though.)
Illusion: 10

(EDIT: Or you could try, if you don't mind not having a 3s Distortion:
Expertise: 11 +1 +1
Marksmanship: 9 +1
Wilderness Survival: 9 +1
Illusion: 6)

I'd recommend using Ice Spikes instead of Frozen Burst. Since this ele looks like your flagrunner, I'd put Extinguish (and possibly Aegis) on him/her, put the sac-reschant on the other ele.

On your other ele, I'd go with an Obsidian Flame, as that would help with spikes, and Heal Party.

I would prefer the eles like this:

Flagrunning water ele:

Ether Prodigy
Armor of Mist
Ice Spikes
Deep Freeze
Heal Party
Extinguish
Aegis
Healing Breeze

Ward ele:

Ether Prodigy
Ward against Melee
Ward against Foes
Obsidian Flame
Heal Party
Draw Conditions
Glyph of Sacrifice
Resurrection Chant

The monks are fine, except I'd use two Blessed Lights instead of one and a BoonProt.

Mesmer in Need · Nov 06, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

^i like your idea for deaths charge. i will try it.
axe, im concerned with energy management. with rush, theres no energy cost. frenzy+shock+prot strike costs 15 energy plus one spike of exhaustion.
i think ill stick with my cripshot build, but try sympatheic visage instead or distortion, with some more illusion and less marksmanship.
ty for the ele help too, ill try your builds. im just worried about the exhaustion of obsid flame. also, i think the runner will be too spread out with both heal and prot, but ill try to work it out.
ill stick with one bprot and one blight, incase the enemy fins a weakness in one, the other will still have a chance.
think i finnaly got it.(after lightings too)
http://gwshack.us/3a853

LightningHell · Nov 06, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesmer in Need

^i like your idea for deaths charge. i will try it.
axe, im concerned with energy management. with rush, theres no energy cost. frenzy+shock+prot strike costs 15 energy plus one spike of exhaustion.
i think ill stick with my cripshot build, but try sympatheic visage instead or distortion, with some more illusion and less marksmanship.
ty for the ele help too, ill try your builds. im just worried about the exhaustion of obsid flame. also, i think the runner will be too spread out with both heal and prot, but ill try to work it out.

I'll give attributes for eles if you're worried.

Flagrunner (Water) (Assuming Aegis is on this):

Energy Storage: 9 +1 +1
Water Magic: 9 +1 (The cutoff for Ice Spike's 5s freezing is 10 Water Magic)
Healing Prayers: 9
Protection Prayers: 9

Warder:

Energy Storage: 9 +1
Earth Magic: 12 +1 +1
Healing Prayers: 9

There should be no problem about obsidian flame and exhaustion, as it should only be used as assist-spike or to finish off low targets.

Cripshot build is fine, but the attributes need tweaking. Sympathetic Visage isn't very useful on a Cripshot.

Also, about the Mesmer...Mind Wrack isn't good if you don't have at least two EDenial mesmers, and your mesmer isn't even full EDenial. I would suggest returning to Blackout - Blackout is usually for blacking out Warriors, anyway.

There should be no Energy problems on the axe unless you spam Prot Strike like there's no tomorrow.

Mesmer in Need · Nov 06, 2006, 05:01 AM // 05:01

uh.. bump?

Drewfense · Nov 06, 2006, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion

Never ether sig..never. Take it out for anything else..condition removal of some sort for example.

Don't watch me blight then ><

romO · Nov 06, 2006, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Ether signet is good. It's the first viable on-demand energy management skill since oob. Granted, it's not as effective energy management as was once available, but at the moment, it's one of the better options.

llsektorll · Nov 06, 2006, 07:08 AM // 07:08

most of the time its not the build but the players

... and in GvG its mostly the leader on tactics calling

Dragannia · Nov 06, 2006, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Ether Sig is fairly decent, especially with Mantra of Inscriptions, which also synergises with Signet of Devotion. It's fairly reliable, as with Mantra of Inscriptions at 9 Inspiration, it's a 36 second recharge skill with a net gain of 16 energy. That's VERY attractive, as every minute you gain 26.67 energy as opposed to, say, Energy Drain, which lets you gain (we'll say the breakpoint at 10 Inspiration) 21.6 energy per minute (in the long run, however, the energy from E-Drain would be better because of its lower recharge). Not to mention that Morale Boosts have a much greater effect on Ether Signet than others, and even without Mantra of Inscriptions it's still decent, at 16 energy a minute. Ether Signet is a great skill.

In regards to the build:

Take Fragility off the Cripshot. There is absolutely no need for it, plus as the only real hex in the build, it'll be removed FAR too quickly.

For the Mesmer, it looks fine. However, I would personally take Power Drain, purely because of the faster recharge. You already have Drain Enchantment so the higher return from Leech Signet is kind of a overkill. So yeah, I'd definately take Power Drain.

For the Elementalist, I personally find Ward Against Foes much more useful than Ward Against Elements; it's has much higher tactical value. You're using, in fact, a very similar Warder to my guild. It's stable, has good spike potential (with Obsidian Flame) and a good defensive supplement. Make sure, however, whoever's playing it doesn't spam Obby Flame. It's tempting, but with Ether Prodigy you'll exhaust yourself faster than a fat man running.

In regards to your runner, it would probably be better if he had some sort of defensive spell so he doesn't get crippled and wasted by Cripshots and Assassins. I'd recommend Blinding Flash replacing Aegis or Ice Spikes (though I like Ice Spikes so I'd recommend getting rid of Aegis). Utimately it's up to you, however.

Why the Convert Hexes? Some people might suggest Purge Sig, but I personally dislike Purge Sigs on anything other than a Mesmer or a Warrior, but you know, someone from a high ranking guild decided to use it now everyone's using it. In any case, I'd recommend dropping Convert Hexes; it's too expensive for your Blessed Light Monk, who has no active Energy Management skills, to be using. If you're worried about hexes, take Expel on your Mesmer. Ignore what Kestrel and that weird dude from Te said, Expel is a great skill to have on a Mesmer. There's a slight chance it might not be used in some matches, but Mesmers function quite decently without their Elite, and it prevents your Blessed Light Monk from wasting 10 energy to get rid of a Diversion on the Boonprot.

On the Boonprot, drop either Spirit Bond or Prot Spirit (I'd recommend dropping Prot Spirit because your BL Monk already has it). You don't need both on the one bar, really. Good replacements would be Inspired/Revealed Hex, Holy Veil, or some other hex removal. Drain Enchantment might work as an Energy Management, as well as a good enchantment removal. Up to you, really.

On your Warriors, I'm not too sure about the Backbreaker. To me, Backbreaker isn't worth using without "To The Limit!" or another adrenaline building skill. You're way too vulnerable to Blackout and the like. Honestly, I'd suggest dropping Death's Charge for "To The Limit!" I don't get why people like Death's Charge on a BB Warrior; it's scary, but so is a Warrior using Backbreaker like it's Devastating Hammer.

The Eviscerate-Axeman seems decent. I prefer Bull's Strike; an Axe Warrior is generally has more energy than Hammers, so he can afford the extremely strong pressure skill that is Bull's Strike (since Zealous Axes are relatively efficient).

When you're done, you'll have a pretty generic build, but it's balanced and will help you learn advanced GvG tactics with time. This type of build is far better than gimmicks such as Smite and Searing Flames spammers, which might be tempting, because with time it would make you much better players than if you had played a gimmick.

Thomas.knbk · Nov 06, 2006, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Your atrributes on the boon prot are fairly screwed up. you don't put "rest" in inspiration, you put at least 9 in inspiration and no more that 9-10 in prot. Also on the first war, either higher tactics or remove heal sig and go 16-13 please.
Also..why Fragility on the poison ranger? you have like 1 condition in the entire build!
Also, I fixed it for you so now the skills show their attribute.: http://gwshack.us/87250

Drewfense · Nov 06, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Ether sig is a really good crutch. It is nice to have something that will always get you energy (and it is decent, it is about a pip) regardless of what the other team is running. I used to run Drain Enchantment for that role, but I don't think it is that favorable since the nerf (unless the build needs the enchant removal).

I wouldn't tag team Mantra with it. You lose 10 energy per minute so you probably are only netting an addition 6ish energy at the sacrifice of a skill slot. Then Sig Devo recharging in 5 is fast enough. If those are your only signets, I think you are better off just running something else.

I think the only thing that is comparable for gauranteed energy atm (that is non-elite) would be Glyph of Lesser Energy. GoLE is good, but I become QQ really fast if I dont have an interrupt.

Mesmer in Need · Nov 06, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36

^ i dont know what gole is, but i think with my boon prot ill use MoR. i caanged the hammers tactics to 11 and strength to 9. the only strenght im using is rush, and it has 15 at 9, and i might make it even lower like to 7.
i put either distortion or soothing images on my cripshot, which will disable a war for atleast a short period ot time. ty tom for changing it btw.
heres the updated build:http://gwshack.us/9e5dc

Dragannia · Nov 07, 2006, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

I wouldn't tag team Mantra with it. You lose 10 energy per minute so you probably are only netting an addition 6ish energy at the sacrifice of a skill slot. Then Sig Devo recharging in 5 is fast enough. If those are your only signets, I think you are better off just running something else.

Aye, which is why ultimately E-Drain would still provide more energy. However, with the decreased recharge of Signet of Devotion you might be able to offset this. Plus it frees up your Elite for something else.

You know what? I'm going to go try this in RA.

In regards to the build:

Never take a long lasting hex on a generally hex-less team, unless it's for spiking. It's Inspired fodder. In addition, the Ranger will never have the energy to use the 15 to cast Soothing Images.

LightningHell · Nov 07, 2006, 02:56 AM // 02:56

WaFoes, definitely.

I believe he's putting in Energy Surge for minispiking purposes. However, I would really put a utility elite there. Expel, Blinding Surge, or perhaps Glyph of Renewal, etc.

Drop Soothing Images. Drop Convert Hexes, and change Prot Spirit on the boonprot to IHex.

I'm in a hurry, I'll probably comment more later on.

Oh, and GoLE is Glyph of Lesser Energy. It reduces the costs of the next two spells you cast by 15, is 5e, and has a recharge of 30.

Mesmer in Need · Nov 07, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

oh dur gole. i see now.
i think i have all the bugs worked out.http://gwshack.us/21bba

Dragannia · Nov 07, 2006, 03:49 AM // 03:49

If you want a hex removal apart from Blessed Light, just go with Holy Veil. It doesn't have that annoying prerequisite on it.

LightningHell · Nov 07, 2006, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Agree with Holy Veil. Also, drop Physical Resistance. Warriors will have a very good time with their Ebon mod.

Another comment about your Mesmer: I'd prefer not to use Signet of Weariness, but I can't think of anything to slot in at the moment. You need at least 2 EDenial mesmers to apply sufficient EDenial.

Mesmer in Need · Nov 07, 2006, 05:28 AM // 05:28

i guess ill just stick with distortion for my ranger. should i drop the mesmer for like a hex necro, or make it a degen mesmer? or should i keep the mes how it is as pressure?

LightningHell · Nov 07, 2006, 07:20 AM // 07:20

I'd keep this Mesmer, although there will be varied opinions on this matter. Hex'ers only shine when there are at least 2-3, and the build as it is now is generally hexless. Domination mesmers are very useful in an adrenal spike with BO, and they're also somewhat annoying in battle as well, being capable of shutting down key spells. Although, I'd think putting the Signet of Weariness away for Gale would be a good choice. <3 Gale. I'd also contemplate putting on Blinding Surge on the Mesmer.

Also, on your cripshot...Seeing that Illusion will only hit 9 with 11/8/8 on Expertise/Marks/Wildy (the breakpoints for Distortion are 2,6,10, and 14), why don't you do 11/9/9 for your ranger attributes, so you're able to hit the breakpoint for Troll Unguent and save yourself 35 hp?

Mesmer in Need · Nov 08, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27

^so blinding surege for esurge , and gale of weariness. got it. but why blinding? isnt it only usefull on wars and sins? i can understand gale though.

so no mesmer skills on my crip shot. what do i bring? debilitating shot would seem good. some bleeding attack like hunters?

but other than these do you think the build is fine?(here) http://gwshack.us/439cf